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A question on mastering

Started by Guest · 10 posts · 4 views · this thread in the Internet Archive

BALLISTIC SOLUTION26 Sept 2003, 04:20
i was just wondering what everyone here uses for mastering. i've gotta give my girl ideas for christmas B) & i still need to rebuild my studio... since all i've got is my too damn expensive synth (with too few damn analog sounds nonetheless :angry: but that will change when i get the "trance attack" board for it) & i can only manipulate the sounds on it & burn it to cd on the synth (that's why it was so expensive :blink: ). also, since this is my 1st attempt at trance (long-time skinny puppy fan) i'm having a hard time extending a track past the 2:30 mark....and it always seems to last 2 minutes & 30 seconds...any suggestions?

maybe when i stop playing things so dark, i'll submit 2 minute tracks for you all to remix :P like the damn SUNBEAM- Outside World track that won't get out of my head! thanks in advance...MAC
Trancefuzion26 Sept 2003, 06:17
Try making the song elements come in beats of 32. That will make the song last longer for sure. Try starting with a beat or a bassline and build it up from there to a climax bringing in the melody, break it down a bit then come back in full and break it down. That's the typical structure for trance. Dunno if I'm much help here but thats as best as I can explain it. Sorry.

As for mastering, I would recommend SoundForge or Steinberg WaveLab. They should do more than enough for you. ;)
David McGowan26 Sept 2003, 06:35
For mastering i use Soundforge 6 primarily, there are some others out there i think like t-racks or t-rax or something like that. :unsure: But for now sound forge does good enough for me. As far as having trouble adapting to trance structure , one thing i did that really helped me get it down was to take a classic trance track, or at least one that lasts a decent amount of time. and get a pen and paper, and play start playing it, what happens first ? "uh kick drum and bass line" write that down, then as soon as you hear another layer come in , write it down and what time it came in, do that for the whole track or do a diagram on paper like a brainstorm bubble concept or something, basically find away to write down what they did and at what times, and it makes it easier to understand the strucutre. then when you go to start sequencing , try kind follow that structure loosley. It will take some time. Oh another semi rule of thumb for trance, the first breakdown usually falls at or around the 2 minute mark. listen to a few songs youll see what i mean. so by the two minute mark you prolly want to havea nice beat established, and some good rythem synths or loops. after the buildup, thats usually when the melody kicks in , but it can kick in before the breakdown it depends. hope im not confusing you , sorry im so long winded. :(

P.S On your trion you should have audio outs weahther they are standard phono jacks or rca or fiber optic digital. You should be able to use the line outs from your synth to the line in on your sound card and record wav files of your playing.

Peace
David
Alle26 Sept 2003, 16:53
Here's the trance[]control way... We strictly applied this to our latest track - Imported Nightmares - and I'd say it worked pretty good... Previous tracks had about the same configuraiton but we didn't pay as much attention to frequency ranges.

PRE-MASTER MIX
We do it all in Logic...

It's mainly one EQ, one HP Filter, one Compressor and one stereo imager per channel used. Surely this doesn't apply to all channels but it's the basic setup. You gotta be mindfull about the fequencies when mixing in a digital environment so that the bassline doesn't cover the same area as the bassdrum, leads must be separated so that it doesn't sound like too much, hi-hats got to be tuned and panned to match the leads and the pitch of the track...

MASTERING
We do it all in Logic...

After we're done producing a track we simply add a few plugins to the master output.

1. A slight compression with the Waves Renisance compressor to tight the mix a bit
2. A high pass filter with a very steep slope at about 28-36 Hz is usually good.
3. Emagic Exciter to bring out the high ends
4. VST Stereo Expander to get the width of the sound right
5. Waves L2 maximizer to give it the final boost & right peak/average levels.

Same thing was previously done with Steinberg Wavelab and I use it from time to time simply to check that the levels are allright and that the scope doesn't reveal 22Hz peaks n' such.
TranceSynthVania26 Sept 2003, 19:34
Yeah, for software mastering, the best plugins are the Waves plugins, period.
the bad thing about those, tho, is that they literally eat your cpu. But if you're using them for a rendered mix, it shouldn't be a problem. Only if you want to apply them to a software-based song which has already used up 70 % of your cpu.

Btw, for those of you who use Cubase SX, it has a plugin process feature which allows you to use whatever plugins on your audio files with no extra cpu usage. It processes audio files depending on which plugin you use... You can apply several plugins to the audio file, and undo them in any order! That is a NICE feature I tell ya! I dunno if Logic has that tho... anyone knows?
BALLISTIC SOLUTION28 Sept 2003, 15:51
so all...like i said, i can now only burn a cd of my music off of my synth & then bring it over to the comp for mastering...is there any real hope? i appreciate all the info like i said, but...should i upgrade the computer & try recording it by individual tracks? i have a 16 track sequencer on the triton....i just cant make everything sound as "wide" if you know what i mean...it's a damn $2600 synth & it still sounds like a pre-programed $15 casio track....frustrating....

thanks for taking the time out of your lives....seriously, it DOES MEAN ALOT!!!!!!
David McGowan29 Sept 2003, 01:14
Well Bro you said in your other posts that your triton has fiber optic outputs, You could get a sound card that has fibre i/o and record what you play on the synth , and then using software faten it up, add some reverb or some expanders compressors. This is all i can think of , since i dont normally produce this way. im sure your triton has regular old rca style outputs you bring in to any sound card if you dont have fiber inputs on your soundcard. and if you are looking for one, the Terratec aureon space has been pretty good for me.

David
Guest29 Sept 2003, 07:12
Hey Ballistic, here's ( ... about ... ) three levels of ubulular audio setups that can cure you of your separation of hardware and software!! Here's my spiffy "informative" look of an actual ... thing!

LEVEL ONE: DIGITAL RECORDING

If you get a wave editor, you can record your synth as a wav and put it into your sequencer! Try Cool Edit or Pro Tools, they rock. Pro Tools also makes a Free version, kinda like a shareware version of Pro-Tools that only does 8 tracks total. But hey if you're just gonna record, all youi need is two tracks, L and R from the synth. Get all that goin, and you can rock with your synth in no time.

LEVEL TWO: EXTERNAL MIDI SEQUENCING

This will be the coolest thing you can ever do to your studio. <-- See that period right there? You pronounce that period. It's that cool. The coolest thing, period. With external midi, you can plug your synth into your computer and send midi codes to it to play a piano roll on its own!! Your synth will behave exactly as an internal software synthesizer only you can actually poke it rather than just look at it on the screen. Combine this with a wave editor, record the synth while playing a piano rool, pop it into your sequencer, and you have your synth's killer sound with the accuracy of all the other softsynths! To get your computer to control your synth, look for a USB MIDI box from M-Audio, those boxes rock (and roll). They're only about $30 I think. Not only will you be able to play your synth from your sequencer, but you can play anything in your sequencer with your synth. Neat, huh?

LEVEL THREE OF UBULARNESS: ASIO!!!

If you first do not proceed, get a job, and buy an ASIO soundcard. I highly reccomend a M-Audio 10/10-LT ($200-300 usually). Get this ... 10 inputs, 10 outputs, almost 100KHz frequencies, ADAT control, AND midi in/out! Not only that, but two of the inputs are XLR!! That means microphones will plug right into it. But that's not all ........ there's zero latency monitoring!! Isn't that to die for almost (cause you don't wanna die)?? I want this but I'm gonna wait a month or so until I can drive so I can get a job first. You plug the midi out of your card to the midi in of your synth and the audio out on your synth to one of the inputs of your card, Then route your sequencer up a bit and the synth will come right into it w/o latency! Then you can pile up a bunch of effects on it, do a bunch of neat stuff ... it's the wonderful world of DSP (digital sound processing) technology. Your synth will be as much of a synth as anything else in your sequencer. I think that's uh-maze-ing.

LEVEL THREE TIMES TWO: I'M TOO POOR FOR ASIO

If you can't afford ASIO, you can snag some ASIO drivers that will emulate the capabilities of an ASIO soundcard with the one you have. I reccomend ASIO2KS (www.asio2ks.de). This driver is beta and is a bit buggy, but I got my latency times down to 6ms and it ran just fine, w/o underruns! And you can use your line in as one of the "asio" inputs. Just like the real ASIO deal, only without the midi, adat, xlr, 10 ins and outs, and zero latency! Okay, maybe not the same thing. But this driver rocks hard ass man. It'll bring in your synth to a FX channel and lower your latency a LOT. The driver taps into the windows kernel and gets thw sound there without it going through all the windows mixers, buffers, and that shnit.

LEVEL I LOST COUNT: YOU'RE LUCKY, MAYBE

IF (and I mean if) your audio card has a joystick plug, you probably have MIDI capabilities already! Look around for a 9-pin-to-MIDI converter cable and you might be able to plug that synth right in. Do this and ASIO2KS and you'll only spend a few bucks for a sweet setup.

Hope this helps!!

Fin.

Oh BTW ... if your synth has a burner on it, it probably kicks ass. Where'd ya get that???
Guest29 Sept 2003, 07:14
Trancefuzion wrote: Try making the song elements come in beats of 32. That will make the song last longer for sure. Try starting with a beat or a bassline and build it up from there to a climax bringing in the melody, break it down a bit then come back in full and break it down. That's the typical structure for trance. Dunno if I'm much help here but thats as best as I can explain it. Sorry.

As for mastering, I would recommend SoundForge or Steinberg WaveLab. They should do more than enough for you. ;)

lol, I like your smiley rave
Guest29 Sept 2003, 07:15
lol, forgot to login ... this is Lithius, but you can call me Max ....

I'm on my sister's computer cause my overclocker's at Kev's house right now.

He's probably f--kin with it.

I'll fix it when I get it back ...